Talk:Gregory & Vivian Investiture 1975

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From: Malcolm Alberic
I have In my hands a report to the Earl Marshal that was written and signed by Waldt von Markheim dated 28th November, 1975 it reads as follows :

Sir, I have the honour to report that the Barony of Dreiburgen, on behalf of the Principality of Caid, held a Coroneting Tourney on the 22nd day of November 1975, this day being a Saturday. The event was held at Central Middle School, in Riverside California, and was attended by approximately 150 persons. 26 waivers were collected by Lady Eyana bat-David Nic Chlurain, Principality Mistress of Lists, and Anne des Anneaux.
13 fighters entered the tournament, which was won by Sir Martin the Temperate, Sir William the Lucky being a finalist and Baron Waldt von Markheim and Phillip of Meade being Semi-finalists. (See the attached Lists diagram)
Weapons were inspected by Baron Waldt von Markheim, Sir William the lucky and Sir Martin the Temperate
Lord Thomas of Waverly, a new fighter, was qualified by Sir Martin the Temperate but did not otherwise participate in the event.
There were no infractions of or exceptions to the Rules of the Lists.
Baron Waldt von Markheim was in charge of the event, and Sir Martin the Temperate, with the aid of Sir William the lucky, was Marshal in charge of the field, Baron Waldt von Markheim being too much occupied with preparations for the Banquet following to be able to devote his attention to that task. Einar aus Enwelt, Robert du Bois, and robert Mac Chlurain of the Isles also assisted in performing the duties of Marshal.
Signed on the 28th of November, 1975 A.D., X A.S., in Dreiburgen

Given this report and the fact that Natalya de Foix remembers Gregory & Vivian Investiture being “in a courtyard in San Diego” I submit that there has been a mix up between Coronet Investiture and Coronet Tourney.

  • Well, the list of Princes on the Caid History website show Martin and Arabella receiving the Coronets on November 20th, 1976, and Martin and Neptha receiving the Coronets on November 19th, 1977. November 22, 1975, was a Saturday, as were the other two dates as well. Since Martin was the last Prince of Caid, the 1977 date is logically correct. Looking at the calendars, the Coronetings were happening in November, the Coronet Tourneys in September. I hate to challange my bud Waldt but the date quoted doesn't seem reasonable, although the rest of the report sounds spot on.

--James the Inconstant 01:57, 13 February 2010 (PST)

  • I’m not sure what to make of it. Which is why I have not used it’s data except for this talk page. I did not start playing until 1979 so I have no memory to go on. Waldt may have miss dated it but I feel that’s unlikely since its written only 6 days after the event. I personally have dated things with the wrong year in January and as late a February but never in November. He also dated it X A.S, which is from May 1st 1975 to the end of April 1976. Also attached to this report is a chart of the Lists showing who all fought in each round and who won it is also dated “22 Nov X A.S.” and there is still the mater of Natalya’s memory entry that states that this investiture was in San Diego.

The only thing I know for sure is that someone has gotten their dates and/or places, maybe even the order or princes wrong, but I have no idea who/which or what. One thing I have observed is since I started this project is that people have good memories for what happened but not for when or in which order it happened. This is why I defer to written records when there is an information conflict. I feel that an investigation of all sources of in formation on this issue is in order so that all the data can be used and listed properly.
Question: in the Principality days how soon after the Coronet Tourney did we crown the Prince?
--Malcolm Alberic 12:01pm, 13 February 2010 (PST)

Pulling some dates from elsewhere. Royal Genealogy of the Known World:

  • Prince Christian and Princess Denysa

Coronet: 1974/06/08 Investiture: 1974/06/09 Stepped down: 1974/11/23

  • Prince Hugh and Princess Rosemary

Coronet: 1974/09/14 Investiture: 1974/11/23 Stepped down: 1975/06/07

  • Prince Thomas and Princess Elaine

Coronet: 1975/04/19 Investiture: 1975/06/07 Stepped down: 1975/11/22

  • Prince Gregory and Princess Vivian

Coronet: 1975/09/13 Investiture: 1975/11/22 Stepped down: 1976/06/05

  • Prince Morven and Princess Bevin

Coronet: 1976/06/05 Investiture: 1976/06/05 Stepped down: 1976/11/20

  • Prince Martin I and Princess Arabella

Coronet: 1976/09/25 Investiture: 1976/11/20 Stepped down: 1977/06/04

  • Prince Balin and Princess Lorissa

Coronet: ????/??/?? Investiture: 1977/06/04 Stepped down: 1977/11/19

  • Prince Martin II and Princess Neptha

Coronet: 1977/09/17 Investiture: 1977/11/19 Stepped down: 1978/06/03

  • Do you suppose we could have our Kingdom Archivist see if he can verify this order and dates and help determine the significances or proper placement of the above report?

--Malcolm Alberic 6:11pm, 15 February 2010 (PST)

  • Do we have one?  :-b And who is it?

--James the Inconstant 18:56, 15 February 2010 (PST)

--Malcolm Alberic 11:42pm, 18 February 2010 (PST)